Whilst Rouhani smiles abroad, executions have been stepped up in Iran according to Mina Ahadi and the International Committee against Execution. Since the election at least 213 prisoners have been executed. 27 were executed in the past two weeks. There are plans to execute 26 political prisoners imminently.
Rouhani was quoted saying he wanted to empty the prisons – it seems the regime intends to do so via executions…
Here Shahin Najafi and Majid Kazemi sing against executions as should we all.
A bunch of boring ultracrepidarians.
Your weakness is not reading other people’s posts. I wrote above:
Read carefully please: The death penalty is not a deterrent, for were it to be so, the U.S. murder rate would not be higher than nearly all other developed countries. (FBI data)
The death penalty in the US is also held up as a ‘shining example’ by countries like Iran and China, that is is perfectly legitimate to execute people. That having been said, in oppressive regimes such as those I have mentioned, many people are executed for their ideological beliefs and little else. The US is powerless to argue against it because it condones execution as a means of punishment.
If the death penalty works as a deterrent, how come people still get murdered in countries where the death penalty is in force? The 2012 murder rate — 4.7 murders per 100,000 people — was significantly higher than in most other wealthy nations. The comparable rate is 0.4 in Japan, 0.8 in Germany, 1.0 in Australia 1.1 in France and 1.2 in Britain, according to figures compiled by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development. Europe is ‘death penalty-free’ and it has a much lower murder rate than the US. Why?
Not such a good deterrent by all accounts.
@ Azzy
No, it is not a separate matter. It is a (one of many) good argument against the death penalty. There was total conviction that the people mentioned were guilty of horrific crimes. Science later showed how completely wrong the accusations were.
FIFY: “The death penalty is not to be applied
in a cavalier fashion nor hastily, nor the laws arbitrarily changed because of a public outrage as in Indiaever! ”To satiate your bloodlust? Execution doesn’t prevent such crimes. Read up on the situation in China, where executions are an everyday occurrence (not least motivated by the harvesting of organs).
Even with the death penalty!
FIFY: “And will not cease to occur
just because some liberals live in a utopiajust because the state butchers its own citizens.”Rehabilitation? Punishment? Disapprobation? Incarceration, inter alia, serves to remove dangerous individuals from society for their own and others protection – without recourse to murder. There need be no issue of hate and revenge involved. Justice is not, nor is it served by, the contention of violent emotions.
Logic is not your strong point. This has to be the most obtuse comment I have read all year.
You are lying to us here. Please stop.
What arguments? The argument from bloodlust? The argument from revenge fantasies?
Emotional arguments are not rational, philosophical nor legal arguments.
…
Saywut? You suddenly refer to character in a work of fiction …
“…No substance, mere declarations of opinion” ……. Really ! And your opinions are well thought out and not contradictory ?
@ StevoR
Your bloodlust is noted. Once again. Why is the solution with you always to kill, kill, kill? You are one seriously messed up individual and should be seeking help for yourself, not spewing your hate on FTB.
StevoR, can you tell me what this list of people have in common? :
Feel free to google if you wish. Take your time and go through each case in turn. Understand what it is that they went through.
Would you be able to explain your pro-death penalty stance to any of these people? Or their families? Or their “victims” families? Really?
It is possible that in many of the cases quoted above there has been bad judicial procedure, bad administration or even miscarriage of justice. That however is a separate matter.
These sad cases do not lead to the conclusion however, that the death penalty be entirely removed from the books.
The death penalty is not to be applied in a cavalier fashion. nor hastily, nor the laws arbitrarily changed because of a public outrage as in India.
It needs to be available to punish the most disgusting and revolting of crimes. Sadly they have not ceased to occur.
And will not cease to occur just because some liberals live in a utopia.
The death penalty in and of itself is a deplorable act of murder by the state on behalf of society. Irrespective of the crimes committed, the state cannot murder to show murder is wrong. Moreover executions are a form of control by the state to silence opponents and silence dissent. It creates a climate of fear and insecurity. We don’t rape rapists or burn down the homes of arsonists. If an act is deplorable, why have the state do it once again to show how wrong it is. There is no logic to this. the death penalty belongs to a time when justice equalled revenge. As the saying goes, an eye for an eye makes the world blind.
Pleasant sound bites. But you tell me nothing to support what you assert. No substance, mere declarations of an opinion. Because none exist.
If justice is not revenge than what would it be? If the state can not “murder” to show that murder is wrong then shall we leave it to gangs of vigilantes?
Or shall we just live in a land of make believe remonstrating with the criminal to give up his bad?
Shall we reward him with a cushy semi-prison where he can spend time in greater comfort than the poor have outside. Only to be paroled a while later.
Many, myself included, even most, are repulsed by the thought of having to murder in the name of justice. Yet as long as we remain human this bitter medicine shall have to be swallowed by us.
Dreaming of an ideal world is ok but the argument in favor of the death penalty cannot be swayed by utopian ideals.
States which execute innocent persons to silence protest are no doubt horrid. However, removing the death penalty from the law books could have no effect as they will continue to murder under other pretexts.
These are not related issues. The argument is irrelevant.
Dear Maryam, May you, her namesake, absorb the virtues of the most venerable mother who adorned this planet.
Read carefully please: The death penalty is not a deterrent, for were it to be so, the U.S. murder rate would not be higher than nearly all other developed countries. (FBI data)
The death penalty in the US is also held up as a ‘shining example’ by countries like Iran and China, that is is perfectly legitimate to execute people. That having been said, in oppressive regimes such as those I have mentioned, many people are executed for their ideological beliefs and little else. The US is powerless to argue against it because it condones execution as a means of punishment.
Europe is ‘death penalty-free’ and it has a much lower murder rate than the US. Why?
‘The death penalty also helps bring closure and relief and peace of mind to the victims families in many cases such as, recently, the verdict sought and delivered for the Indian rape victim’s gang rapists and murderers’.
In some cases capital punishment brings closure to families of rape/murder victims. But not always. Sometimes it just makes things worse too.
http://www.mvfr.org/how-it-causes-harm
‘I think opponents of the death penalty overlook and cruelly ignore the feelings, interests and essential justice owed to victims of crime and sympatheise (sic) too much with the very worst and most evil of criminals’
This is simply not true. Opposing the death penalty has nothing whatsoever to do with sympathising with criminals.
The link above takes you further into why the death penalty is opposed from murder victims families perspective.
I do. The Americans have a lot of blood on their hands. They, historically and currently, bear a large part of the responsibility for the problems in Iran.
The discussion, though, was about state sponsored murder,the executions, as referred to in the OP. In this, the American state is just as guilty of the crime of killing its own citizens.
Call it by its name: murder.
Because it is a waste of a human life. Because it focusses on violence as a means to resolve issues. Because it simply does not work to achieve its stated goals (reduce crime, prevent murder, etc). … The reasons are easily multiplied.
Ableist language. Classy.
What the fuck do I have to do with the West?
@theophontes (恶六六六缓步动物) :
Actually capital punishment works perfectly to prevent individal criminals from committing further murders rapes and other crimes. Name for me one criminal who has reoffended after being treated by capital punishment if you disagree.
The death penalty also helps bring closure and relief and peace of mind to the victims families in many cases such as, recently, the verdict sought and delivered for the Indian rape victim’s gang rapists and murderers.
I think opponents of the death penalty overlook and cruelly ignore the feelings, interests and essential justice owed to victims of crime and sympatheise too much with the very worst and most evil of criminals. When you take the side of the criminal and not their victims you are taking the wrong side.
Just a tiny fact but a very relevant one: In the US, over 40% of those in prison are black, despite the fact that the US population comprises only 10% black American. Worse still, 50% of those on death row are black.
Your hypothesis about dead (executed) criminals (if that is what they are) not being able to commit another crime is sarcastically sick, but let me turn the argument around: How do you go about rehabilitating those who have been executed that weren’t actually guilty of the crime that they were executed for?
@theophontes
Quote “Because it is a waste of a human life. Because it focuses on violence as a means to resolve issues. Because it simply does not work to achieve its stated goals (reduce crime, prevent murder, etc). … The reasons are easily multiplied.” Unquote
How is it a waste of human…..? The waste of a life is exactly the intent of this punishment. And is needed to pay the criminal back.
“focuses on violence as a means ……” Will we get away from violence? Ever? It is the human condition Liberal dreams notwithstanding.
“..does not work to achieve …” It does, and in places it is severely needed. For closure, for justice.
Perhaps the victim might have the right/choice to commute a death sentence, I don’t know.
But the loss to the society in general, apart from the victim, how shall that be recompensed?
Reminds me of John Donne’s words:
“ never sent to ask for whom the bell tolls: it tolls for thee”
If the death penalty works as a deterrent, how come people still get murdered in countries where the death penalty is in force? The 2012 murder rate — 4.7 murders per 100,000 people — was significantly higher than in most other wealthy nations. The comparable rate is 0.4 in Japan, 0.8 in Germany, 1.0 in Australia 1.1 in France and 1.2 in Britain, according to figures compiled by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.
Not such a good deterrent by all accounts.
@ Azzythehillbilly
What a truly terrible idea. No state should take it upon themselves to murder its citizens. What good could ever come of such barbarism?
At this stage the regime simply needs to shed a lot of blood. Hanging people is politically convenient. Legality, or “national perogative” does not come into it. No-one ever deserves the death penalty.
It is indeed something to castigate. In the strongest possible terms.
“At this stage the regime simply needs to shed a lot of blood. Hanging people is politically convenient. Legality, or “national prerogative” does not come into it. No-one ever deserves the death penalty.”
No one deserves death. Except he commits a crime for which the law calls for the death penalty. I suppose you have never had a near one raped or murdered.
if you want to uphold your opinion why don’t you protest the American cruise missiles which killed thousand of innocent citizens in Iraq Afghanistan and Pakistan? Oh! but that is just “collateral damage” no need to shed a tear. besides they are just barbarians Correct?
And why not the death penalty? By what reasoning, logic or holy command received lately by the libtards would your ideals have precedence over mine? By the force of superior Western arms, I presume?
“No one deserves death. Except he commits a crime for which the law calls for the death penalty. I suppose you have never had a near one raped or murdered.”
You believe that executing someone resolves the causal violence? Even if you try and and make that stand up, what do you do when the wrong man (or woman) gets executed? That makes the state as bad as the murderer, doesn’t it?
“By what reasoning, logic or holy command received lately by the libtards would your ideals have precedence over mine?”
In this sentence you show a total lack of respect for the opinions of others. No one has ‘precedence’ over your views, leastwise, no one did until you used the offensive compound word ‘libtards’, which means ‘liberal retards’. Now I don’t know which dictionary you use but I use the OED (Oxford English) and that lists your use of the word ‘retard’ as offensive. I had little sympathy with your ‘an eye for an eye’ (un-Christian) viewpoint from the start, but as you seek to denigrate anyone that doesn’t have the same neo-con ideology as you, my soupçon of sympathy evaporated.
@ Maryam
From the outside looking in:
Rouhani is where he is because Khamenei and his ilk want him there. Further, it appears, as you say: ” He can’t do anything without Khamenei’s approval.”
In that case, we really need to ask what Khamenei’s maneuvering is about. Why the swerve towards presenting reform? Likely he has no choice. For all their posturing, the conservatives are likely feeling the pressure of sanctions, and a world that has turned their backs on them. This coupled, perhaps, with some internal pressures. Likely the changes, they realise, are going to have to be of a permanent and structural nature. At the same time they fear being seen as weak and are therefore compensating for this with state sponsored murders.
“Good cop – bad cop”? I don’t know about that. They are not in control of the bigger situation. Rather, changes forced upon them are making them lash out violently. There is nothing particularly original in their behaviour.
Maryam, I think you are winning.
Maryam;
Here in Canada, news media reported the release of an Irani-Canadian accused of spying just before Rouhani went to New York to make his speech, but nothing has been mentioned about all of those executions.
Western media hasn’t covered this story perhaps because of apathy, but possibly because they are unaware of it, they tend to be too lazy to go digging for stories.
Maybe sending out some press packets would encourage them to report on this story.
As the Iranian regime appears to be making at least a little effort to improve their image, possibly it could save some lives?
Hey! But wait a minute what were the crimes these persons committed? Were they all executed because of their faith or lack thereof?
I am sure many were ordinay criminals, robbers rapists and murderer. Any breakup?
While one might oppose the execution of those in the first category I suppose that death sentence for the rest would be a national prerogative. Not for others to castigate. Right?
When a state executes people at the rate that Iran and China are doing it makes it impossible to know who is ‘legitimately’ executed and who isn’t. If we in the democratic countries worry about our media being compromised by laws to control the excesses of the gutter media, how would we feel if the state simply bumped people off? Surely if the state can simply go through a ‘legal’ process and then execute people it leaves a gap you could drive a lorry through in terms of getting rid of political dissidents and those who don’t ‘fit in’ such as gays, transsexuals and the mentally ill.
Rouhani is perfectly aware of what is going on and endorses the atrocities against the Iranian people.
@ Maryam
Is this an executive (no pun intended) decision on the part of Rouhani, or could it be that others, whose decision it actually is, are using a wave of executions to undermine him politically? I would not place such actions beyond the cynical murderousness of the conservative detractors.
I suppose you could look at it that way if you buy into their good cop/bad cop routine. Rouhani is a stalwart of the regime as was Khatami or Rafsanjani (other “reformers”). He has been permitted to run and be elected by the head of the “conservatives” Khamenei. He can’t do anything without Khamenei’s approval. Funny though how when what a “reformer” does is deemed to be positive, it is because he is a wonderful man and wants “change” – though no laws have actually changed but if it is negative – like the executions, someone else is doing it and he has no power. Well which is it?
Funny that you should put it in “good cop, bad cop” terms here Maryam Namazie. Thats just what I’ve been afraid is the case with Rouhani myself.
Good if worrying item here, thanks.